MADISON, Wisconsin (Reuters) – Supporters of legislation to reduce public employee union bargaining power and benefits in Wisconsin were far outnumbered by opponents on Saturday, as the two sides shouted competing slogans but did not clash.

Tens of thousands have demonstrated this week against Republican Governor Scott Walker's proposed legislation, which supporters say is needed to control spending and opponents contend would break the back of state worker unions.

Wisconsin is the flashpoint for a U.S. struggle over efforts to roll back pay, benefits and bargaining rights of government workers. If the majority Republicans prevail, other states could be emboldened to take on the powerful unions.

Both sides drew thousands to the state capital Madison on Saturday -- officials put the combined total at 55,000 -- but no more than 5,000 of those appeared to be there for the rally backed by Tea Party groups, the first appearance by members of the conservative, limited-government movement this week.

The bill's opponents marched counter-clockwise around the state Capitol, encircling the legislation's supporters and chanting "kill the bill."

The supporters countered with "Recall them all," referring to Democratic state senators who fled to Illinois to deny Republicans the quorum needed to consider the proposal.

In addition to sharply curtailing union bargaining power, the Republican legislation would make state workers contribute more to health insurance and pensions.

FRIENDLY ATMOSPHERE

"I've been working in a factory for 26 years. We pay 15 percent for the cost of our healthcare. The state workers get Cadillac insurance and pensions. They have no God-given right to collective bargaining," said bill supporter Anthony Thelen, 46, who works in a nonunion factory outside of Milwaukee.

Although there had been fears of a fight, the atmosphere was generally peaceful and friendly, with organizers on both sides urging followers to be courteous.

Margaret Derr, a high school math teacher and union member, said she didn't dislike the governor personally.

"I'm just opposed to the bill. I have no problem contributing more to my healthcare and pension. I understand about the deficit, but some of the proposals are just about union busting."

Like Derr, union and Democratic leaders say they are willing to compromise on benefits if Republicans back off on their bid to weaken collective bargaining, but so far Walker and his legislative allies have stood firm.

State Assemblyman and Minority Leader Peter Barca told Reuters, however, that he has not given up on a compromise.

"My hope is before Tuesday enough Republicans will recognize this proposal is over-reaching and the support for this proposal wanes. I've been told some Republicans will reconsider," he said.

Tuesday is when the State Assembly is due to take up the proposals again. Barca said he did not know when the absent Democratic state senators might return, allowing that body to consider the measure. Senator Jon Erpenbach said Friday that the senators were prepared to be away for weeks.

Governor Walker estimates the state budget deficit for the rest of this fiscal year at $137 million and for the next two fiscal years under its biannual budget at $3.3 billion.

He wants state workers to increase contributions to pensions to 5.8 percent of salary and double contributions to health insurance premiums to 12.6 percent.

The proposal would limit collective bargaining to the issue of wages and cap increases to the rate of inflation, with a voter referendum needed for bigger increases.

It also would end government collection of union dues, allow workers to opt out of unions, and require unions to hold recertification votes every year. Walker said the alternative is to lay off more than 10,000 public employees.

U.S. state and local governments are struggling to balance budgets after the recession decimated their finances. In addition to Wisconsin, other states like Texas, Arizona and Ohio are relying mainly on cuts in spending to balance the books, while Minnesota and Illinois are raising taxes.

Larry Sabato, Director of the University of Virginia Center for Politics, called the polemical environment in Madison a "raging against the coming of the night" stemming from years of fiscal irresponsibility.

He said the conflict will spread. "As bad as this is at the Wisconsin State level, it is far worse in about 20 states," Sabato told Reuters.

"In cases like this it always depends on how the governor handles it," he said. "If you look around the country there are a whole bunch of these types of governors and I would be shocked something like this doesn't happen in Ohio, New Jersey, and Florida."

Despite such serious aspects of the issues, Wisconsonites on both sides did not let their differences get in the way of civility on Saturday.

When the opposing rallies ended, many retired to the numerous bars in the Capitol's shadow, like The Old Fashioned Tavern & Restaurant.

Zog Begolli, a 23-year-old bill opponent, met four bill supporters there when they helped him get a drink at the crowded bar. "They allowed me to get closer so I could order," he said.

"Beer is something we can all agree on," said Randy Otto, 59, from Lake Mills, one of those who let Begolli squeeze in.

(Additional reporting by Eric Johnson in Chicago; Editing by Jerry Norton and Philip Barbara)

MADISON (Reuters) – When the two sides in Wisconsin's bitter battle over the future of the state's unionized public employees converged on the Capitol on Saturday for dueling rallies, the fear was trouble would break out.

Instead, the day was marked by a surprising civility when the shouting stopped and the one-on-one conversations began.

The slogans they had chanted had highlighted the stark differences that separated them.

"Kill the bill!" cried the opponents of Republican Governor Scott Walker's proposal to cut the pay and benefits of unionized public workers and sharply reduce their collective bargaining rights. "Pass the bill!" supporters of the proposal shouted back.

But aside from a few outsiders -- like AFL-CIO chief Rich Trumka here to back opponents of the measure, and Andrew Breitbart, the conservative provocateur who appeared at the Tea Party-backed rally to support Walker -- the people on hand were from Wisconsin itself and these neighbors were remarkably civil despite their sharp disagreements.

Wisconsonites are united, even in times like this, by many things, including a love of University of Wisconsin, Madison, athletics and the program's strutting mascot Bucky the Badger; a devotion to the Super Bowl champion Green Bay Packers NFL football team; and, of course, a love of beer, brought to the state by its German settlers and honed by brewers whose names are part of American history: Pabst, Schlitz, Miller and Blatz.

So when the opposing rallies ended here on Saturday, many of the demonstrators retired to the numerous bars in the Capitol's shadow, like The Old Fashioned Tavern & Restaurant, with its 50 beers on tap -- all from Wisconsin -- and another 100 in bottles, 99 of them from the Badger state. The one other, from neighboring Minnesota, is listed under imports.

Over pints of Evil Doppleganger Double Mai Bock and Lost Lake Pilsner, knots of demonstrators debated the questions that have galvanized union employees across the country and brought the business of the state legislature to a standstill. Is Walker's proposal part of the Republican's effort to put the state's finances in order, a repudiation of the state's long history of progressive politics, or the latest example of that tradition?

Zog Begolli, a 23-year-old bill opponent, met four bill supporters at the Old Fashioned when they helped him get a drink at the crowded bar. "They allowed me to get closer so I could order a beer," Begolli said.

"Beer is something we can all agree on," said Randy Otto, 59, from Lake Mills, one of the bill supporters who let Begolli squeeze in.

"I was outnumbered," Begolli said. "But the conversation was civil."

Outside the numbers were reversed. Of the estimated 55,000 people attending Saturday's demonstrations, probably fewer than 5,000 were Tea Party types backing Walker and his fellow Republicans.

Begolli said he agreed with the bill's supporters that, in the state's current budget crisis, public employees can help by paying more for their health care and retirement benefits. But he says the part of Walker's bill curtailing collective bargaining by unionized state employees is "not about fiscal issues. It's an attack on unions."

Dave Andera, a 59-year old investment adviser from Milwaukee, has no problem with that. He thinks public workers should not be unionized and believes Walker is following in the progressive footsteps of the state's great Robert La Follette by facing down organized labor.

"Wisconsin has always been in the forefront of change," he said. "And we're in the forefront again."

Neither Andera nor Begolli believed he had changed the other's mind during their 30-minute conversation at the Old Fashioned. But both thought the legislators inside the Capitol could learn something from the exchange.

"I think the more meaningful discussions this week have occurred outside the capitol," Andera said.

"You can disagree without being disagreeable," Begolli said. "That's exactly what we need to see inside the State Capitol."

(Editing by Jerry Norton)

CHICAGO (Reuters) – As demonstrators wrangled on Saturday over Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker's move to weaken public unions, analysts weighed the consequences of 14 Democratic senators' decision to flee the state to stall the bill's consideration.

Their absence means the State Senate, controlled by Republicans, lacks the necessary quorum to act on the proposal.

"This is seen as an extreme action you can interpret in two ways," said Larry Sabato, Director of the University of Virginia Center for Politics.

"Either they are trying to unfairly deny the people's vote in November or they feel that things are so inequitable that they have been forced to use these tactics."

"In doing so, Democrats might end up losing a giant public relations battle in addition to this legislative stand-off," Sabato said.

Democratic leaders say the senators were forced into the action by Republicans -- who won control of the governorship and legislature last fall -- seeking to rapidly introduce legislation while breaking legislative rules. Republicans deny that and say the legislation is necessary to create needed flexibility in dealing with the state's imminent fiscal woes.

Tens of thousands of state workers and their supporters have demonstrated against the proposals this week, and many have added their signatures to a sign in the State Capitol that showed solidarity with the absent senators.

"I think they are doing exactly what they need to do by staying away," said Julie Rothenbach, 42, a mother and teacher-in-training from Milwaukee after signing the poster. "And if that's what it takes to slow this thing down and let our voices be heard, that's okay with me."

Professor Mark Copelovitch of the University of Wisconsin said the Democrats' move was a local version of the U.S. Senate filibuster, a tactic once minimally used that he called now "systematic.

Defenders say such tactics protect minority rights and prevent majorities from ramming through legislation without due deliberation. Critics contend they can hinder the legislative process and implementation of policies voters support.

"As far as the constitution goes, there is nothing that expressly forbids their actions," Copelovitch said. "But if the same thing that is happening in Wisconsin spreads to other states, there should be explicit rules written to forbid it."

Senator Jon Erpenbach said Friday that the senators were prepared to be away for weeks, and Assembly Minority Leader Peter Barca said he didn't know when they would return.

"Sooner or later all 14 will have to return--they are away from their states, homes, and businesses," said Sabato, adding that a vote is inevitable and the mathematics is not on the side of the Democrats.

"The upside is that they have brought a lot of attention to their point of view. The downside is they are setting themselves up for a big failure in public relations at some point," Sabato said.

(Reporting by Eric Johnson; Editing by Jerry Norton)